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October 9, 2020 9:44 am  #1


Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

I found this story behind one of the biggest selling novelty records of the 60s quite fascinating - especially the part about how Snoopy creator Charles Schultz originally didn't even want to let them use the character for the tune. In fact, it was first written without the comic strip dog in it at all. 

Behind the Song: ‘Snoopy vs. the Red Baron’ 

 

October 9, 2020 10:25 am  #2


Re: Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

That's a good article, but there was even more behind the hit that they don't get into. There was another alternate version of the song that is described in the following article ... it actually made it onto the RPM Canadian national chart for one week, before being replaced the next week by the version we all know. 
http://musicmasteroldies.com/2009/12/16/squeaky-vs-the-black-knight/

 

October 9, 2020 10:35 am  #3


Re: Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

In case anyone is interested in seeing the alternate version on the RPM chart I'm referring to, check out #73 at the link below.
https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/028020/f2/nlc008388.5781.pdf

 

October 9, 2020 10:50 am  #4


Re: Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

Even better than the article I linked to. What a great story. Thanks for posting. I love finding out stuff I didn't know about songs I really do know.  

     Thread Starter
 

October 9, 2020 11:01 am  #5


Re: Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

Same here. I've always liked that song and thought that it was very well done, but there was so much more behind it than I would have ever expected for a novelty song of this nature. 

 

October 9, 2020 1:43 pm  #6


Re: Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

I've always really liked the song since the day it was first released.

 

 

 
 

 
 

Last edited by unclefester (October 9, 2020 2:39 pm)

 

October 9, 2020 2:03 pm  #7


Re: Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

Squeaky vs. The Black Knight is also available on YouTube, and there are some interesting comments about it there as well. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioGBIKfKXWI

Last edited by Lorne (October 9, 2020 2:43 pm)

 

October 9, 2020 2:29 pm  #8


Re: Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

They are very fortunate that the song was never released the way it was originally written. A Nazi war pilot the hero of a tune in North America? I highly doubt it would ever have gotten a single spin on any radio station. But what a great story this is!

     Thread Starter
 

October 9, 2020 3:02 pm  #9


Re: Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

There wouldn't have been any issue in that regard with the Red Baron, since he fought during World War I and the Nazis didn't come to power until well after that. Of course both the US and Canada were at war with Germany during World War I as well, and so the Red Baron might not have been the most ideal subject for a hit song here either. But because it had been much further in the past, and for a far less odious regime, I don't think it would have been nearly as significant a problem. 

 

October 9, 2020 4:31 pm  #10


Re: Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

Forgive my ignorance of history! But even so, there were a lot more WWII (and possibly WWI) survivors still with us back in the 60s than there are now. It certainly would never have flown (you'll pardon the expression) with North American audiences with a German pilot as the protagonist. But add in a cartoon dog and it's a hit! 

(And I find it interesting that in the alternate version, not only don't we have the "bloody Red Baron," but Squeaky is described as a "buck toothed beaver." How much more Canadian can you get?)

Last edited by aflem (October 9, 2020 4:39 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

October 10, 2020 8:38 am  #11


Re: Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

Some takeaways I have from both articles:

What an interesting story!  I wonder if the song's popularity would have been the same if Squeaky was used?  

Now knowing that Charles Schultz wasn't very thrilled with them using Snoopy, I wonder if he ever liked the song?  I always thought he was part of the scheme.

In today's litigious society, I'll bet the Royal Guardsmen wouldn't have gotten away with "stealing" their name from the amp.

I'm chuckling that the drummer had no experience with drumming...all because he wanted to meet a girl next door.  Still chuckling.

 

October 10, 2020 5:25 pm  #12


Re: Why "Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron" Originally Didn't Have Snoopy

I looked up the song on Songfacts and found a couple of paragraphs at https://www.songfacts.com/facts/the-royal-guardsmen/snoopy-vs-the-red-baron that may be of interest re what we've been discussing. 

First, it states that: 

The Red Baron was so respected that the Allies buried him in France with full military honors. So grand was his legend that Peanuts author Charles Schultz devised a storyline pitting him against Snoopy. His image was later used to sell frozen pizza.

This goes with what I had previously suggested, that the Red Baron wasn't an inherently problematic figure as the subject of a song here. I'm not saying that the song would have been anywhere near as big a hit without the addition of Snoopy, but I can see why the writers thought that it was possible to do a Johnny Horton-style song about him. I wish my father was still around to ask about this, given that he served in the Royal Canadian Air Force during World War II, but my guess is that he'd agree. (When I was young, I remember that it was a source of pride here that such a well-renowned and very highly regarded flying ace had been shot down by Canadian pilot Roy Brown; however, I have since read that he probably shouldn't have been credited with this.) The fact that the Red Baron's image ended up being used to sell frozen pizza would also go along with him being highly enough regarded here. 

However, what I was really looking to find was something about how Schultz felt about the song. I thought that he eventually came around regarding it, and the following paragraph indicates the he did. 

In 1975 Charles Schultz told author David Manning White, "We threatened to put a stop to (the record) until we were included in the success." The band never met Snoopy's creator, though Chris says, "We heard through our label (Laurie) and producer that Charles Schultz liked our songs." 

 

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